E28: How Do You Handle a Narcissist? - AI Reimagined

Struggling with a narcissist? This podcast explores narcissistic personality disorder, offering strategies for recognizing and navigating these challenging relationships, especially when children are involved. Learn how to protect yourself and your children from manipulation.

About this AI Deep Dive: This episode features an AI-generated dialogue based 100% on the original teachings of Mette & Sune Sloth. It transforms our core concepts into an engaging conversation for deeper understanding.

Want to explore further? Visit our AI Knowledge Center to ask questions directly to our books, lectures, and articles in your own language.

Magdalene Effektens hjemmeside

The Magdalene Effect hompage

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome to the deep dive. Um, today we're going to be looking at a really fascinating topic.

Yeah.

And we actually have a little bit of a different intro than usual today.

We're your AI hosts, by the way.

And uh, we're here because Mette Miriam Sloth and Sune Sloth from the Danish podcast, The Magdalene Effect.

Okay.

They reached out to us and they asked us to take a look at one of their episodes.

Oh, cool.

Their episode number 28. And

um, talk about it for our English speaking audience.

Great. Uh it is in Danish so not everyone will be able to understand it but uh what it's about is narcissistic defenses.

That's a good one. Uh I think a lot of people hear narcissist and just think of someone who like loves themselves but it's way more than that.

Yeah. It's more about like how they see the world and how that affects their relationships.

Exactly. Yeah. And one of the things that really stood out to me was how these defenses are often rooted in like a deep sense of fear and insecurity.

Huh. I wonder where that comes from.

Yeah. It's a good question. This episode actually talks about how, you know, childhood experiences,

especially those that involve emotional neglect or trauma can uh

can really shape that.

Yeah.

You know, it's like they never developed a solid sense of selfworth. So, they're constantly trying to build themselves up by putting others down.

Yeah. I've definitely noticed that with people I've known who have those tendencies. It's like they need to be the center of attention all the time.

Right. Exactly.

And the one in control to feel any sense of security.

And the episode also talks about how these defenses, they can manifest in really subtle ways, too. It's not always about like, you know, being really cruel. Yeah.

Sometimes it's just, you know, constantly criticizing you even for small things.

Or or like twisting reality to make you doubt your own perceptions.

Is that what gaslighting is?

Yeah. Exactly.

Where they make you feel like you're going crazy.

Exactly. And then uh the episode also mentions this thing called confabulation where um they'll lie so convinced ly that they actually start to believe their own lies.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's like their reality is completely distorted.

It is. And what's interesting is the episode really emphasizes that it's often not like intentional.

Oh, okay.

It's not malice, you know? It's more like they're trapped in this cycle of insecurity and defense mechanisms that they might not even realize are driving their behavior.

So, it can be really confusing for the people on the other end of this, you know.

Yeah. Absolutely.

You start to second guess yourself like, am I overreacting?

And you even start to internalize their criticism.

That's the thing. The episode talks about how prolonged exposure to these defenses can actually lead to uh you internalizing the narcissist's voice.

So, you start to see yourself through their eyes and believe the negative judgments and maybe even like censor yourself to avoid a conflict.

Yeah. Exactly. Like, think about it.

Have you ever held back in a relationship,

avoided certain topics or felt guilty for like going after your own interests? because you were afraid of upsetting someone.

That's a good point. I think a lot of people have probably been there, you know.

Yeah.

Just try to keep the peace.

Yeah. And that's where things get tricky because if you're constantly sacrificing your own needs and desires to try to appease someone else's insecurities, well, you're basically giving away your power

and that can affect like every other aspect of your life.

Absolutely. You might find yourself making career choices based on what they'd approve of or or avoiding social situations that might upset them or even limiting your own personal growth

to keep them comfortable, you know.

So, how do you break free from that?

That's a great question and uh that's what we're going to explore in the next part of this deep dive.

Okay, I'm ready.

All right, so breaking free from a relationship where uh you know narcissistic defenses are at play. It's not easy, right?

But it is possible. And uh the episode actually offers some really concrete advice on how to, you know, start reclaiming your power.

Okay. Yeah, I think our listeners would really benefit from that.

Yeah. So, one of the things they stress is the importance of setting boundaries.

And that doesn't have to be this big dramatic, you know, confrontation.

Okay.

It can start with just like small everyday actions.

Oh, like what what kind of things?

Think about things like saying no to requests that you don't feel comfortable fulfilling or voicing your own opinion even if you know it might not be wellreceived.

So, just like little moments where you're asserting yourself.

Exactly. It's about reclaiming your right to have your own thoughts and feelings and needs and to express them without fear.

What if the other person reacts badly?

Right. Well,

like what if they get angry or try to manipulate you?

Yeah. That's where the next piece of advice comes in. The episode talks about how it's really important to not engage. Okay.

In these lengthy explanations or try to reason with someone who's really entrenched in those narcissistic defenses.

So, it's more about actions than words.

Exactly. It's about setting that boundary and then holding firm. Even if they try to guilt trip you or play the victim or twist things around,

I can imagine that takes a lot of strength.

It does.

Especially if you've been kind of like conditioned to doubt yourself and put their needs first.

Exactly. And that's why the episode emphasizes the importance of seeking support.

Yeah.

And that support could be from a therapist or a trusted friend or, you know, a support group or even just reading books or listening to podcasts that validate your experience.

It can be so helpful to have that outside perspective.

It really can

to remind you that you're not crazy, right?

That you're not overreacting

and that you deserve to be treated with respect.

It's about reclaiming your own reality in a way.

Exactly. Now, the episode also acknowledges that sometimes even with boundaries and support, the relationship might be too toxic to salvage.

Right. Especially if there's like a power imbalance or abuse or children are involved.

Right. In those situations, they talk about the importance of having a strategic exit plan. Okay.

So, this might involve, you know, seeking legal advice, setting up financial independence, or finding a safe place to stay.

So, sometimes you have to prioritize self-preservation.

Absolutely. But on the emotional side of things, right?

How do you heal and move forward? The source material actually offers some really empowering suggestions. They talk about visualizing a life free from the narcissist's influence.

Oh, so you're shifting your focus from feeling trapped to imagining a future where you're free. Exactly. And they talk about connecting with your own inner strength, rediscovering the things that bring you joy and fulfillment.

Because a lot of times in these relationships, you lose sight of yourself, your passions, your purpose.

That's right. So, it's about reclaiming those parts of yourself, starting to make choices that align with your own values and aspirations.

So, it's a journey of rediscovering who you are outside of that relationship.

It is. And it's important to remember it's a process,

right?

Not like a switch you can flip on.

There'll be ups and downs. moments of doubt, times when those old patterns try to creep back in.

So, what can you do when those moments hit?

That's where self-awareness is so important. The more you understand your own patterns and your triggers,

right,

the better you'll be able to recognize them and choose a different response.

It's like learning a new language.

Yeah, that's a great analogy.

The language of self-respect and self-care.

And just like learning any language, it takes practice and patience and maybe even a little help from a good teacher.

Like a therapist.

Exactly.

I remember the episode mentioned something called gray rocking.

Oh yeah.

What is that?

So gray rocking is a technique that's often recommended for dealing with narcissists.

Okay.

Especially in situations where you can't completely avoid contact. And it's essentially about becoming emotionally unresponsive.

Okay.

To their attempts to provoke or manipulate you.

Like you're rock solid and unmoving.

Exactly. You keep your responses brief, factual, devoid of any emotional charge. You don't engage in arguments. You don't explain yourself.

So, you're not giving them any fuel.

Exactly.

For their drama.

Yeah. Exactly. Now, it can be challenging, especially if you're, you know, naturally empathetic or if you've been conditioned to please them. But the idea is if you consistently refuse to give them that emotional reaction they're looking for,

Yeah.

they'll eventually lose interest and move on to easier targets.

So, you're basically starving them of their narcissistic supply.

Exactly. And it's important to note grey rocking. It's not about becoming cold or heartless. Okay. It's about protecting yourself and preserving your own energy.

New way of saying, "I'm not going to play your game anymore."

Exactly. It's about shifting that power dynamic and taking back control of your own emotional well-being.

This is all really helpful information.

Yeah.

What I like about it is it's not just about identifying the problem, right?

It's about giving people actual steps they can take to move forward.

I agree. It's about empowering people to reclaim their own lives and create relationships that are based on respect, authenticity, and genuine connection.

Now, earlier we were talking about how these narcissistic defenses can be rooted in childhood.

Yeah.

And that makes me wonder, can these patterns be passed down?

That's a really important question. And unfortunately, the answer is often yes. Okay.

The episode talks about how children who grow up in these environments, they can learn to adopt similar defense mechanisms

as a way of coping with all the emotional chaos.

It's like they learn that love comes with conditions,

right? They learn that to be loved, they have to meet certain expectations, play certain roles, suppress parts of themselves,

and those patterns can carry over into their adult relationships.

So, it becomes a vicious cycle.

It can. But the good news is awareness is the first step towards breaking that cycle.

Okay?

By understanding how these patterns are formed, we can start to make conscious choices to do things differently.

That's a good point. It's a message of hope.

It is. And it's important to remember that Even though these situations can be really challenging, they also offer opportunities for growth and healing.

In what way?

Well, by navigating these relationships, we develop greater self-awareness. We learn to set healthier boundaries. We ultimately become more resilient and compassionate individuals. It's like we're forced to confront our own shadows

and emerge stronger.

I love that.

Yeah.

And it leads perfectly into another topic. The episode talks about self-care.

Oh, absolutely. Self-care. It's not just about like bubble baths and face masks. It's about prioritizing your own well-being. Yeah. Both physically and emotionally. And it's especially crucial when you've been in a relationship where your needs have been ignored or dismissed.

So, what are some examples of self-care that might be helpful?

Well, it can be anything that nourishes your soul and helps you to reconnect with yourself.

So, it might be spending time in nature, pursuing creative hobbies, engaging in physical activity,

practicing mindfulness, or even just giving yourself permission to rest and recharge.

It's about treating yourself with kindness.

Exactly. And recognizing that you deserve to be cared for and nurtured and loved.

Starting with yourself.

What's resonating with me is how these defenses

Uhhuh.

they're really about a lack of self-love.

Yeah.

And it sounds like the path to healing starts with cultivating self-love and compassion.

I couldn't agree more. It's about recognizing that we all have wounds. We all have insecurities. And we all have this deep longing to be seen and understood and love. D

and the more we can offer that to ourselves.

Yeah.

The more we can offer it to others

in a healthy way.

Right. I'm curious. The episode talked about the possibility of like healing and reconciliation.

Yeah.

Is that even possible?

It's a complex question.

Yeah.

And the episode acknowledges that it's certainly not easy,

right?

But it's not entirely impossible.

So, what would it take? What are the key ingredients?

The biggest one is that the person exhibiting the defenses

Yeah.

has to be willing to acknowledge their patterns and take responsibility

for their actions. They have to be willing to do the work to go to therapy to challenge their beliefs and behaviors. So there has to be like genuine remorse

exactly

and a desire to change.

And even then it's not a guarantee, right?

The other person in the relationship has to be equally committed to setting those clear boundaries, prioritizing their own needs, and walking away if those boundaries are not respected.

So it's a two-way street. requires effort from both people.

Absolutely. And it takes time and patience and often professional guidance.

But what about situations where it's just not possible or even desirable, like it's just too toxic.

Well, in those cases, it's really about self-preservation. They talk about the importance of grieving the relationship, allowing yourself to feel the pain of the loss, right?

Recognizing that it's okay to move on.

So sometimes letting go is the healthiest thing.

It can be the healthiest and most loving thing you can do. Yeah.

For yourself and for the other person.

It's about accepting that and remembering that you're worthy of love and respect and happiness.

Absolutely.

And those things are available to you.

Yes. And it reminds me of another point they make. Forgiveness.

Oh, right.

Which is often misunderstood.

Yeah.

It's not about condoning someone's behavior or pretending that you weren't hurt. Right.

It's about releasing yourself from the anger and resentment.

It's about letting go so you can move forward.

Exactly. And forgiveness. It's a process, not a destination.

Yeah.

There might be days when you feel forgiving and days when those old wounds resurface

and that's okay.

And that's okay.

It's about being patient with yourself.

It is. And recognizing that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself,

not something you do for the other person.

Exactly.

This has been such an insightful conversation.

Yeah.

It's amazing how these defenses can affect so many parts of a person's life.

It's true. But the more we understand about these dynamics, the more empowered we become to navigate them in a healthy and constructive way.

Absolutely. So, as we wrap up this part of our deep dive,

okay,

what do you think is the most important takeaway for our listeners?

Hm. That's a great question.

Yeah.

I think the biggest takeaway is just recognizing that even though these situations can be so challenging,

there's always hope.

Yeah,

there's always a path towards healing, growth, and creating a life that's filled with love and joy and authenticity.

That's a beautiful way to put it.

Thank you. And on that note, we'll transition to the final part of our deep dive.

Okay.

Where we'll explore even more insights.

Sounds good.

And strategies for dealing with these complex dynamics.

Yeah.

We've talked a lot about the emotional and relationship side of things.

Yeah.

But the episode also mentions this really interesting idea of like the energy dynamics.

Oh, yeah.

Involved in these kinds of relationships.

It's something people don't always think about.

Yeah. I've definitely noticed that being around someone like that,

it can be so draining.

Yeah. Yeah,

like they suck the energy out of you.

It's like they're energy vampires.

The episode talks about how people with those defenses, they're often operating from a place of depletion. Like they're constantly looking for validation and attention from others to try and fill this like void.

So if you're not careful, you can get caught in that cycle, too.

Absolutely.

And end up feeling depleted yourself.

Yeah. You're constantly giving,

right?

And never getting anything back.

That's why they talk about protecting your own energy. Yeah, that's so important.

So that might mean like setting stronger boundaries,

limiting contact,

even just like visualizing a shield.

Exactly. It's all about becoming more aware of your own energy, right?

And recognizing when you're feeling drained

and then doing things to replenish that energy.

Yeah. Like meditation or spending time in nature or doing things that bring you joy

so you're less susceptible to their influence.

Exactly. The episode also talks about intuition.

Oh,

like those gut feelings you get,

right? When something feels off.

Yeah. Even before you see any obvious red flag,

like your intuition is picking up on something.

Exactly. And an episode really encourages people to trust those feelings.

Yeah. Listen to that inner voice.

Yeah.

Even if it doesn't make sense logically.

Sometimes it's not even a feeling.

Oh, what do you mean?

It's like a lack of feeling.

Okay.

Like you meet someone who's really charming on the surface,

but you don't feel that warmth or connection,

right? There's a disconnect.

Yeah. And paying attention to that can be really protect. So, it's about trusting your judgment.

Exactly.

And not being swayed by like superficial charm or manipulation.

You have the right to choose who you let into your life.

This has been so eye opening.

Yeah, it has.

This whole idea that breaking free from those defenses,

it's really about self-discovery and empowerment.

It is. It's about learning to trust yourself, honoring your needs, creating a life that reflects your values.

And it's not always easy.

No, it's not.

But it can lead to so much growth.

So much growth and resilience and a deeper sense of self-love.

So for anyone out there who's starting that journey,

yeah,

just remember you are not alone.

There are resources, there are people who understand and there is a path forward.

Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive into narcissistic defenses.

It was my pleasure.

We hope you learned something and that you feel a sense of hope and possibility.

Yes.

And we'll see you next time on the deep dive.

Bye everyone.